Tulpa.info - tulpa-discussion

Dang

9:56 PM

... Actually not that hard to imagine

but i also had aphantasia for most of my life and my mind’s eye is very inconsistent (edited)

People just usually go for visual imposition first, sometimes only

9:57 PM

Well yeah, aphantasia on any level will do that lol

9:57 PM

My visualization clarity is just really bad, but it's there

but not sure if visual imposition even is using regular phantasia

Hmm, I'd say so

9:57 PM

Practicing one a lot does improve the other for us

9:58 PM

But they do feel just a little different, not one to one

9:58 PM

Even though we impose more often than we visualize by a fair amount, when we've been slacking lately and it's too hard to see them by imposing, I'll just switch to visualizing and suddenly they're there in much more detail lol. (edited)

9:59 PM

So, related in that they get better/worse together, but not exactly the same, since my visualization clarity is always a fair bit more detailed than imposition, even when we only really practice imposition.

10:00 PM

Maybe that could differ by person though.

10:00 PM

Frankly not enough people putting serious time and effort into imposition to have many in-depth discussions about it these days.

10:01 PM

Well, and a lot of people struggled to do it back in the day too, so there have never been a ton of people discussing it all at once.

10:01 PM

~~I blame getting stuck on trying to follow guides, because it really isn't hard~~

Frankly not enough people putting serious time and effort into imposition to have many in-depth discussions about it these days.

@Reisen - jump there's an imposition server some have congregated on not much point bringing it up on servers where (almost) no one does it/talks about it

I haven't heard about that

10:04 PM

But, Tulpa.info is literally the one-and-most-suited place for discussing anything about tulpamancy seriously

10:04 PM

That's its entire point, to collect and provide info

10:04 PM

So I don't approve :P

when I git gud I can have more to share here

10:07 PM

I don't think it's against the rules to share servers so here's a post with an invite https://www.reddit.com/r/Tulpas/comments/ytairg/imposition_discord_server/

r/Tulpas - Imposition Discord Server!

8 votes and 2 comments so far on Reddit

question for others: visual imposition is pretty easy for me, but it has the same clarity/type of experience as imagining things with my eyes closed, it's just superimposed on my vision. Is that where everyone else is? I've heard of people having full on hallucination-level imposition, but I am unsure of the possibility of that

most people can't superimpose images, no but yes, it can become solid and realistic

10:13 PM

(not literally physically solid of course)

Imposition for most people generally is not hallucination-like. I don't even consider that healthy.

10:16 PM

Won't say no one has had hallucination-level imposition, buuut I'm unclear on whether that was skill or just..

10:16 PM

Not-a-skill

10:17 PM

We're only "pretty okay" at imposition though, I'm not a master who can say what the limits are or anything (edited)

10:18 PM

I know it could easily keep improving in our case with intense & frequent practice, but I guess I can't guarantee that it doesn't become more convincing?

10:18 PM

I still don't think that's healthy to aim for, though.

10:19 PM

Imposition can become plenty immersive without becoming a symptom.

We’re pretty decent at imposition, we can impose our own bodies over the body to an extent (it’s more transparent than anything else, like idk a poncho) I can use imposition to get the phantom sensation of my hair (longer than the body’s) cascading down my back, it’s interesting to say the least

10:26 PM

Anything visually imposed has a transparency to it that outerworld things don’t have

cool, just checking

10:33 PM

in that case my imposition skills are great

Luminesce: You could say our visual imposition is transparent, and it is in effect, though it's really just like seeing two things at once. I might technically be seeing behind my tulpa, but I'm not mentally focused on it, my focus stops at them (edited)

10:34 PM

Well, unless I specifically want to focus on what's behind them of course.

What do you guys think about system travel

Luminesce: Assuming you mean system hopping/headmates going from one human to another... (edited)

2:16 AM

We have a channel dedicated to #metaphysics specifically because most people here don't believe in that sort of thing

I believe in it, but as a metaphysical practice, yeah.

Ah didn't realize

2:33 AM

Im still getting used to it here

Reisen

Luminesce: Yeah, my brain usually just plays a random song 24/7, but on days where I socialized a lot it instead just runs snippets of words (sometimes not even intelligible) from people I heard a lot in the background (edited)

I have been thinking about servitors recently and I think the "mind music" we have counts as a real servitor rather than one of our "symbol servitors". I never thought about a servitor that runs snippets of words other people say, but I wonder if it's just the "mind music" servitor with a mindset change. Why do I consider "mind music" a servitor? Well, I noticed our mind music actually has some tulpa like properties. For example, when thought of, it can trigger the mind music and it can hang around, regardless if you really want it or not (ah hah... lol?). It can also have a form (which for us would be symbolism or a "symbol servitor"). When we did the rotating trigger thing the first time (everyone took turns fronting via possession mostly in rapid succession), it was so chaotic the mind music overrode Gray's ability to think. Why would doing weird fronting stuff affect mind music, unless mind music could uh... be in the front in the first place??? And unlike the stupid "servitors" that are doomed to be tulpas, it's very clear mind music isn't sentient lol. But I do genuinely wonder if mind music can erm... switch. It's something I have to think more about, but I'm thinking this type of servitor could cause

mind music
meme machine (think the robot from Flubber who always had a meme to share)
and now sound-bytes from other people

I think there's probably more you can do with this, and the more interesting question is if you can train this, which I suspect so (edited)

8:13 AM

=== Just thought of this, make "Google autofill" a servitor. Sounds pretty terrible though as a verbal servitor lol, unless it was more raw tought and/or visualization based

Deleted User

i better start reading some guides on that pluralthonk

Yo guide request??? Honestly I don't know how to improve a tulpa being "more independent", given what I know about vocality and partoting/puppeting, but maybe that's the problem! I do have some vocality advice, but it doesn't take this approach. I think having a set process where the host and tulpa can compare progress from a starting point would be super rewarding too. I still stick with the learning how to ride a bike metaphor when it comes to vocality, but I know it's a flawed theory since it doesn't apply to everyone. I know mindsets are really important to vocality, so I wonder if an "improvement" approach would compliment rather than replace mindset-focused advice. The problem with the "riding a bike" theory assumes that there isn't something you can gradually get better at, so if you can gradually see a tulpa more vocal than thst would hurt the theory. Oh shoot, contect. I consider vocality and sentience to be interchangeable. I have no idea if anyone measures "sentience" other than how separate their tulpa seems based on their responses. Ironically, most advice on vocality discourages the idea of a gradual approach by telling you not to worry about it. Huh, maybe it wouldn't compliment... Forgive me, it's 4 am, but this is actually a more interesting train of thought than I expected.

emily

made in a day

That's actually more common than you think! I want to say like 1 in 3 have a vocal tulpa week one, and if I had to guess 1 in 10 day 1

8:30 AM

Damn it would be a good tulpa census question

Reisen

In other cases yeah, if someone could be swayed to either follow a guide or figure it out themselves, the latter is better (edited)

I think there are some people who expect a guide to be follow these steps and get exact output. I think this mindset in of itself hurts them rather than the guide. You really have to invest brain power on your own, but I genuinely wonder if some people don't know how to think on their own. I do think this is different than needing guidance, I think a lot and I over complicate things, I need guidance to stay on track, in other words I think too much. I think there needs to be a guide on er... how to think

KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk

try to teach someone ride a bike from a book

The bike metaphor!

8:37 AM

=== Okay there is more I haven't read but even I'm getting confused jumping around different topics like this

A long kiss goodnight

I have been thinking about servitors recently and I think the "mind music" we have counts as a real servitor rather than one of our "symbol servitors". I never thought about a servitor that runs snippets of words other people say, but I wonder if it's just the "mind music" servitor with a mindset change. Why do I consider "mind music" a servitor? Well, I noticed our mind music actually has some tulpa like properties. For example, when thought of, it can trigger the mind music and it can hang around, regardless if you really want it or not (ah hah... lol?). It can also have a form (which for us would be symbolism or a "symbol servitor"). When we did the rotating trigger thing the first time (everyone took turns fronting via possession mostly in rapid succession), it was so chaotic the mind music overrode Gray's ability to think. Why would doing weird fronting stuff affect mind music, unless mind music could uh... be in the front in the first place??? And unlike the stupid "servitors" that are doomed to be tulpas, it's very clear mind music isn't sentient lol. But I do genuinely wonder if mind music can erm... switch. It's something I have to think more about, but I'm thinking this type of servitor could cause

mind music
meme machine (think the robot from Flubber who always had a meme to share)
and now sound-bytes from other people

I think there's probably more you can do with this, and the more interesting question is if you can train this, which I suspect so (edited)

I have "mind music" too but it's just a product of psychosis...

1:32 PM

Leftover symptoms that aren't treated by my meds

Ah, I see. I'm sorry to hear

It's fine It's like my least annoying symptom

Kei

1:53 PM

HI

Hi Let's go to #general-chat or something

Kei Wendt

Hi Let's go to #general-chat or something

did you both have fun in general-chat?

No because they never said anything else

oh

Kei Wendt

No because they never said anything else

im sorry...

11:30 AM

i ended up falling asleep...

It's okay

Moving here because people wanted to answer this- When did your tulpa "became vocal", "became sentient", and "became seprate" ?

7:52 PM

===

1. Immediately 2. Immediately, aand.... 3. Immediately Now idk if that's normal tulpa behavior, if i have something else, or if i'm just a tulpamancy anomaly but It was all immediate for me

From @Kei Wendt

@Kei Wendt were you trying to do tulpamancy when it happened?

On the topic of those three definitions from the research channel: Autonomy - happening without your will or control. A habit is autonomous. Separation - the state of being isolated from the host in terms of personality and will and opinions. A highly separate tulpa might be involved in very different things than the host with a very well defined personality. Independence - the ability for a tulpa to think and act without interference or control on the part of the host. The more often you "step in" to control the situation the less independent the tulpa. (edited)

I didn't consider that. You can argue Dream is fairly separate from Gray and I, but his independence is less so than my other headmates (edited)

8:25 PM

I think it's pretty unusual for independence to be something tulpamancers have to worry about in the creation phase, a lot of advice is to not worry about that aspect. However, it is worth considering post-creation if a headmate isn't comfortable identifying as a tulpa or if two headmates realize they're so similar they're actually one in the same

Ale𝕏andra 🍄🐈

@Kei Wendt were you trying to do tulpamancy when it happened?

The first time yes but the other two times no

1

my guess would be that you met the prerequisites for your brain to make tulpas before even trying (Cerys and I were also instant, altho my host wasn't actually trying to do tulpamancy, and that's how we understand how it was possible)

8:59 PM

broad experience really seems to help with tulpamancing

Yeah it was just really weird because the second one, momo, i accepted But james i didn't actually accept and i didn't even interact with him at first but he stuck around

my system has never experienced needing to 'maintain' a headmate to stop them disappearing, even when not interacting for up to a few years

we absolutely have to do that

Ale𝕏andra 🍄🐈

my system has never experienced needing to 'maintain' a headmate to stop them disappearing, even when not interacting for up to a few years

Yeah i never really had them disappear after not interacting either

i figure i should take my updates to here. todays progress update: demotivated; demoralized. should probably chill out and try to play video games with her but my sheer inability to active force is really cutting me deep today

1:04 AM

i can lie there for hours thinking of nothing but the minute i try to focus it just doesnt work and i go back to thinking of nothing. well, less 'nothing' and more that thoughts enter and leave and i forget them the second im no longer thinking them (edited)

1:07 AM

open to suggestions, not just complaining for the sake of complaining, but no ones obligated to reply either

the alt account in question

open to suggestions, not just complaining for the sake of complaining, but no ones obligated to reply either

don't try to active force for hours if your brain is having such a problem with it try for 1 minute (and make it a really good minute, give it your best shot!) then the next day, try for 2 minutes, then 3 minutes the next day and so on (and if you miss a day, just go back to it the next day) each time, keep a log of things you notice, and how easy/hard it was, then look back on it from time to time

i suppose i could try, though i dont see the benefit in a 1 minute forcing session

2:12 AM

id have to do 60 of those in a day to get anywhere

if you're not forcing, you could also just narrate

2:13 AM

instead of aimless "I think I'll go here" in the video game, you could say "I think I'll go here" to your tulpa

oh thats my other problem, i usually forget to do that unless im playing a game. sometimes i actually like... run out of energy to narrate, too

2:13 AM

which i know is something i should work on but

the alt account in question

id have to do 60 of those in a day to get anywhere

Not really. Even a little bit of forcing can make a huge difference

running out of energy to narrate is pretty normal. If you're still practicing daily it'll get easier

2:18 AM

even if it's not for very long per day

2:18 AM

I've been pretty extreme in my practice recently, but it's been delivering good results

2:19 AM

but even small amounts, as long as it's consistent, will give results eventually

the lowest effort thing i can do is play music for her

that's good

Honestly like If you can focus even on just talking about random shit to her that will help Like just tell her what your fav food is, what you did today, whatever as long as it's to her

i have no idea how much she can tell from my memories lol so sometimes i feel a bit stupid telling her things i feel like she already knows

2:22 AM

should i try to deliberately block her off from my memories so i feel less stupid or would that stunt her growth

It doesn't really matter I think she'll still be interested in it even if she already knows